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Talk:Presidium Groundskeeper
Groundskeeper is not a Bareface. Lilihierax is not either. Both have a problem with their facepaint colors being too close to their skin tone. Neither also are of an "untrustworthy" nature, like Talid, Saren, or Kuril. In all three instances of verifable barefaces, they have had the associated subterfuguous nature. Thus is not the case for Li or Groundskeeper. Here's Groundskeeper: http://a.imageshack.us/img826/6263/groundskeeperfacepaint.jpg Here's Lilihierax: http://a.imageshack.us/img824/5748/lilihieraxfacepaint.jpg Not all turians have spectacular facepaint patterns like Nihlus. --MadCat221 05:35, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :What's more, you can clearly see the "teeth" pattern around his mouth, similar to that seen on the Blue Suns Centurion. I don't really care to comment about Lilihierax, but Mr. Groundskeeper is not barefaced. It's just white facepaint. -- Dammej (talk) 05:41, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Here's a really up-close image of Groundskeeper's forehead. ::Link due to high-res image ::The edges of the regions in question are too crisp and even to be "blemishes". They are facepaint. :: EDIT: Looking at the up-close image reveals that the forehead one is more detailed than I originally saw: it goes all the way down to around his nose. ::--MadCat221 05:48, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Just a friendly tip Madcat, in the future, when your edit is reverted post on the talk page instead of undoing what another user reverted. Keep in mind that while you may be correct you are now edit warring. Basically, after your edit is reverted the first time, bring it to the talk page so it can be worked out. This way nobody feels they have their toes stepped on. GrandMoffVixen 05:58, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :I have to say... I'm not sold on the Groundskeeper having facial markings. The bits highlighted as purported facial markings are the same color and 'consistency' of other seemingly random blotches on and around his face. And look at the central alleged mark. The image with the outlines shows a clearly defined upper boundary, which is simply not present in the unedited image. SpartHawg948 06:10, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Had to do other things, but I agree, he doesn't have facial markings, which is why I kept removing it. The edited version seems ot have things that aren't present in the unedited version. Overall I'd have to say that Li and the Groundskeeper don't have pained faces. Lancer1289 06:15, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :::I dunno. I'm more sold on Li having them, mainly because there are some clearly defined patterns in a color that doesn't appear all over his face seemingly at random. The Groundskeeper, on the other hand, is highly debatable. SpartHawg948 06:18, August 11, 2010 (UTC) I notice that neither Lancer nor Spart commented on the 'teeth' that I pointed out, so I'm assuming that it was missed. Check out the Blue Suns Centurion. Notice the teeth-like white paint as well as the stipped... er, horns, on the top of the head. Now take a look at the Groundskeeper. Same white teeth pattern on a bluish face, same white stripes on bluish horns. If it's not facepaint it's a darn odd kinda disease that looks an awful lot like another turian's facepaint. -- Dammej (talk) 06:23, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :I didn't mention them because I don't see them. The white blotches around the mouth of the Groundskeeper look nothing like the clearly painted markings on the Centurion. They just don't look like markings. I also note that the edited version showing the purported markings overlooks several blotches in the supposed patterns. SpartHawg948 06:25, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :I was looking for the word, and just found it. This seems to me to be nothing more than pareidolia, the mind projecting recognizable images or patterns into a random situation where none are found. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting. SpartHawg948 06:30, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :The Groundskeeper definitely has something there on his forehead and brow, it's not only a different shade of 'grey', it's specular mapping (aka reflection) is totally different to the rest of his obviously 'natural' skin. The teethmarks and anything around the jaw I fail to see, but the brow and forehead are there for sure. Phylarion 06:50, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::But it appears to be over the entirety of his brow and forehead, not just the areas that were highlighted in the edited image, and there do look to be a few splotches in it. Again, I'm not seeing any real evidence of painted patterns. SpartHawg948 06:53, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Here's the top of two turian's heads: The first is the groundskeepers head, sporting the same horizontal stripes on his horns as the Blue Suns Centurion. The second is the bartender in the darkstar lounge. Not that he has vertical pinkish stripes. This does not look random to me. -- Dammej (talk) 06:55, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :I fail to see how this is evidence. After all, were they related, the Groundskeeper would have blue markings on his face. The Bartender's markings are the same distinct color as the markings on his face, and flow pretty naturally from those markings. The markings on the Groundskeepers head seemingly have no relation to the purported marks on his face. If anything, this would seem to serve as evidence for the Groundskeeper being barefaced. And remember, the issue is if he is or is not bare''faced'', not bare-top of the headed. SpartHawg948 06:59, August 11, 2010 (UTC) The whole point of that screenshot was to point out that the white markings are not random blotches. One last screenshot before I throw in the towel. This isn't a change that I added or wanted to add anyway, so I don't know why I'm even arguing it anymore: Teeth, white mark going straight up from the nose to the top of the head, etc. If you don't see it, I guess I'll go imagine facepaint on other turians then. -- Dammej (talk) 07:11, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :I still think you're seeing teeth where there are none, merely juxtaposing a known image onto random patterns subconsciously, but I do admit that, now that a decent image has been presented, there do appear to be markings on the forehead. Although I do at least feel validated in that the original 'this is proof' image was, as I had contended, rather inaccurate, which was the source of most of this ruckus. If this image had been presented from the get-go, the who thing would have been a non-issue. SpartHawg948 07:15, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Bit late now, but I've highlighted the areas for your benefit Spart. Thinner paint and more accurate than the hand-drawn job at the very top. Shame you got there first! Phylarion 07:19, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :So... I'm confused now. Do you want me to concede again? If not, that last post seems pretty redundant. :P SpartHawg948 07:20, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :Yes I do! Bow before us admin! :P Phylarion 07:21, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Oops... whilst in the process of bowing, I seem to have slipped and fallen onto the 'block' button. :P Also, it's actually 'Bow before us bureaucrat', thank you very much! SpartHawg948 07:22, August 11, 2010 (UTC) Ok I know I said it was the last screenshot, and I know you've already conceded, but I feel the need to defend my sanity. I booted up TexMod and made the turian's "blue skin" texture go away. Note that the stripes on top of his head are now brownish as well. This makes the teeth very visible: Can I stop being accused of imagining things now? -- Dammej (talk) 07:25, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :Ummm... no. The image above does not appear to mesh with the prior image presented. It appears that some of the white bits have been rounded off and such to give the impression of teeth when, upon examination of the original image, this does not appear to be the case. There's one in particular I'm looking at that looks vastly, and I mean vastly different between the two versions. I'm not buying it. Sorry, but I'm not a huge fan of anything other than unedited images being presented as evidence. Any altering of the image distorts what is actually there, as this thread shows all to well. And for the record, your sanity was never in question, or in need of defense. Pareidolia has nothing to do with sanity. All sorts of perfectly sane people see patterns in random objects, like clouds and smoke and trees and whatnot. Sanity is not a factor at all. SpartHawg948 07:27, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::You know, the whole point of my conceding was to say 'ok, it's resolved. can we please stop talking about this now?' Honestly, the continuance of this discussion is getting remarkably tedious and frustrating. It feels like 'thermal clips vs heat sinks' all over again. I don't see the teeth. You do. Great. Can we just agree to disagree, as I've been trying to do? SpartHawg948 07:36, August 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Sigh. Very well. I'll back down. -- Dammej (talk) 07:43, August 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::That was, after all, the entire gist of my concession. I admitted I was wrong where I obviously was, and summed up my opinion without really arguing it on the 'teeth' issue, as that one is much more opinion than the forehead markings. I did one never-ending argument today. I'm desperately trying to avoid another. SpartHawg948 07:51, August 11, 2010 (UTC)